What I don't know.

Things I don't know about John Vincent.

Tracing people is hard.

I am lucky to have 'insider information' in family documents and memories, but even those can only take me so far.

It is coming upto nearly 2 years of researching him.
For nearly 2 years I have thought of almost nothing and no-one else.
Whilst I have answered a LOT of questions, and some of them were pretty huge- there is still a long list of questions I don't yet know how to answer.

So; things I don't know:

Where did he go to School.
What kind of Education did he have.
When he went to sea.
How he ended up in Hull.
How he met Alice.
When he changed his name.
What happened in Tenerife when the Endurance landed there?
What he did during WW1- between Endurance and joining the RNR
How and When did he meet Janet.
What shipping company he worked for in Fleetwood.
What happened to his medals etc?


I'm sure I'll be able to add to this list, but until then...

Answers on a postcard please!

William Stephenson.

William Stephenson was another sailor on the Endurance, who lived in Hull.

Not just Hull, according to Shackleton's payroll he lived on the very street where John Vincent, and Endurance 3rd Officer Alf Cheetham both lived.
Bean Street, Hull.

Now, Stephenson has always been an elusive figure in the world of Polar History.
Every biography you come across states he was born in 1889, and died in 1953, and had been in the Marines at some point.

Curious I was to read his Marine record, I searched for him, using a family history website.

Nothing.

Well, lots really, many Stephenson's, but nothing at all to suggest that any of them were OUR Stephenson.

Until I found a picture of him online.
The picture was taken after the Endurance, but Stephenson looked at least 10 years older then his birth date dictated.

So I searched again, using the birthdate of 1880.

First record that appears. The 1911 census.

11 De La Pole Terrace.
Bean Street.
Hull.

William, a wife called Edith, and a daughter called Doris, born in 1910.

There is now no doubt that this is OUR Stephenson, as the exact address matches that on Shackleton's payroll.

Turns out, Stephenson was born in 1877.

He and his wife Edith (nee Binks) had three daughters. Doris (b.1910) Nellie (b.1912) and Gladys (b.1915)

Glady's birth is probably the most intriguing. Stepenson left for Endurance around August 1914, so his wife would have only just been pregnant when he left.
Did he know? Maybe, it's difficult to say.
Gladys was born in February 1915, so she'd have been over a year old when her father saw her.

However, her birth certificate is rather charming:

After Stephenson returned from the Antarctic, he signed up for the Royal Naval Reserve, and eventually was demobilized in 1922.

In 1927, he was admitted to Hull Infirmary for an operation to remove gallstones. Sadly he died from complications on the 20th April 1927. Just a day after his 50th Birthday.

He is buried in Hull Western Cemetery.

His address is once again listed as 11 De La Pole Terrace.

Quite why Stephenson has never been thoroughly researched before is unclear, possibly because he was one of the one's who like John Vincent, didn't receive the Polar Medal.

However I do have another theory, that Stephenson is often quoted as being in the Royal Marines. I believe this to be incorrect. I have not found a shred of evidence to confirm this, apart from a not in Orde-lee's diary that states Stephenson had been in the Marines.
On many of Stephenson's documents it states that he was a Marine Engineer.
I think what probably has happened is that Orde-lee's misunderstood Stephenson's job title (even if he was't an engineer on the Endurance) and stated Stephenson was in the Marines.
This has now been taken by researchers as fact, and a Stephenson who fits the dates has been found and traced instead.

The William Stephenson who was in the Marines was actually in service while the expedition was at the South Pole!

Whilst this amused me greatly, it is also rather alarming how much information is taken as fact, when the researcher has simply found someone who 'almost' fit's the bill, without opening and reading the document correctly.

Unfortunately I often have the same problem with John Vincent.
When researching people, you have no choice BUT to be through, otherwise you could be doing almost irreversible damage to someone's legacy.

Starting up again

It's been a while since I posted, and it has been rather a year of up's and downs.

Most of it is because we moved house, in April 2017.

Pretty brilliant as John Vincent came from the Black Country. To be prescise, Staffordshire, exactly where my new home was to be.

Now we've moved and settled. Time to start blogging again.

Letters...

In the 1999 book 'Endurance' by Caroline Alexander, there is this  interesting quote:

A single material record of his (Vincent's) later life is known; an unexpectedly gracious letter that he wrote to Hudson's mother, assuring her that her son-whom he had last see utterly incapacitated by the exposure of frostbite on Elephant Island- was doing very well and had never failed to pull his weight
(Alexander, 1999)

At the beginning of the year I wrote to Caroline Alexander to ask who has possession of the letter and if I could see a copy.

After many months, and I had pretty much given up, but yesterday I received a reply!
As I had thought, the letter was owned by Hudson's son, Richard and she kindly gave me his address.. She also said she might have a copy and will have a look for me, which is very kind.
Sadly, I had already discovered a couple of weeks ago by another source that Richard died a few years ago.
Typical!

I'm hoping to meet more Endurance descendants next week, and fingers crossed one of Hudson's will be there and I'll be able to ask them.

Huberht Hudson was the navigator on the Endurance, and was incredibly ill, both mentally and physically on Elephant Island.

I wonder what it was that compelled Vincent to write to Hudson's mother? Had Hudson asked him to? Did she find his address and write to him? It is well publicized that he was living at 67 Bean Street, Hull at the time, so it is probably that she wrote first. Or did he write from South Georgia?

What ever the reason, a copy of this letter can go a long way to showing that Vincent wasn't wholly bad, just a shame that when he does do something nice, it is not elaborated on...

Script of the Speech I read to the 16th Annual Shackleton Autumn School.
29th October 2016;

I have to confess, I was really nervous, coming here today and speaking to you all. Indeed, I was really nervous of joining the polar community at all.
As a great-granddaughter of John Vincent, bos’un of Shackleton’s Endurance expedition, I was a little apprehensive about how I would be received.
Vilified for being a bully, and apparently not pulling his weight, the history books have never spoken kindly of my Ancestor.

 The denial of a polar medal, which still causes controversy today has only served to compound the accusations against him.

I confess that until recently that’s all I could have said about him myself.  Having grown up with the story, I was sort of proud that my great-grandfather was a bit of a trouble maker, who made his own rules, and was defiant in the face of authority.

However, I recently started wondering what kind of man he was, and what kind of life he had, and doing this research led to me joining the polar community, and I thank you all for the warm welcome I received. 

 It’s not easy to dispute the history books, but the more I found out about John Vincent from talking to family members, and accessing historical records; I realised what a fascinating life he led, and how misleading some of the books are.

 I don’t have time for much detail today, but I’d just like to highlight a few aspects of his character that have never been appreciated before, and perhaps encourage people to think about him again.

The most important thing about him is that he was, first and foremost, a family man. Born in 1884 in Birmingham, he moved to Hull, and in 1910 married; Alice May Parker. They had several children together, Jack (born in 1910), Cath (1912), Jean (1917) and Walter (1920). You’ll notice that two of the children, John and Cath were born before the expedition sailed in 1914.

 I wonder how many people knew he was a husband and father first.

Obviously the story of Endurance has been well documented, and sadly, though working hard, Vincent didn’t cope as well as he should have on the trip. When he did return home, he went straight back to sea. We believe he was working on an armed trawler escort when his ship was torpedoed- sparking another miraculous survival!

In 1923, his wife Alice was diagnosed with tuberculosis. Their fifth child, Richard was born in October. Alice died just 2 weeks later, she was 34 years old and left behind 5 young children. Sadly, two months later, baby Richard also passed away; probably from the same disease that had claimed his mother. Within the space of a few short weeks. John Vincent’s entire life had been turned upside down.

Though he did find happiness again. With Janet, my great-grandmother.

And another five children appeared; Daisy, Roy, Echan, William and Dawn.
Roy is my grandfather, and was born in 1925, but sadly is no longer with us.

 However, my great- Aunt Dawn, John Vincent’s youngest daughter, is currently still living in America.  
Both of them have recorded fond memories of growing up with their father, and you can only imagine how hurtful some comments are to them.
 
While very happy, the family were never well-off, and it was of utmost importance to Vincent that they were well provided for.  In the 1930’s, A Grimsby trawler, by the name of ‘Girl Pat’ had been taken on an unauthorised round-the-world trip, Vincent offered to skipper a mission to retrieve the vessel- as long as the shipping company provided for his wife and family while he was away.

But I would like to point out, how hard working he was.
Out of many tales, two clear incidents, both of which echo the same story, stand out the most about just how hard he was willing to push himself.  

The first, is the Voyage of the James Caird. In 1916- 800 miles in a tiny boat to raise the alarm, Vincent was chosen as one of the crew to accompany Shackleton.

There are those who say that when making the decision on the crew, Vincent was chosen purely because he was a trouble maker. Well, personally, I believe that Shackleton deserves more credit than that. He was not a man to needlessly endanger his men, and if he didn’t believe Vincent couldn’t help him get there, then he wouldn’t have been taken.

Vincent was a skilled sailor, Shackleton needed a strong crew to make the mission a success. While Vincent broke down, both physically and mentally on the journey, I believe he was probably suffering hyperthermia, and was pushing himself hard to not let the rest of the crew down.

Within the space of about week he goes from being described as the fittest member of crew, to one near death. I think that he pushed himself so hard that it nearly killed him.  

The reason for this belief is a second incident which occurred in 1941- during World War 2, while captain of the minesweeping trawler HMT ‘Alfriedian’. He was taken ill with pneumonia while on-board the ship. Still managing to bring the ship into harbour, he was rushed to the local Navy hospital.
Reports stated that had refused rest, insisting on being at the ship’s wheel when he docked. According to the crew he was almost on his knees when he landed ship safely in Grimsby harbour.
Sadly, this time he had pushed himself too far, and passed away a few days later as a result, leaving the family devastated.
Both incidents show how incredibly hard working he was, to the point where it almost -and eventually did- contribute to his death.

I have many more stories about him, but Sadly, I am running out of time…

So I would like to finish with this;

I think that it’s sad that people are willing to believe some of the history books that make him out to be a just bully.

Because, my family knew him as a different man,  
 A man who believed that everyone should do their fair share.
 A Captain who risked his life during the Grimsby air-raids running to the harbour to ensure the crew of his ship was safe.
 A loving husband and father, who worked hard to provide for his family.
 Perhaps it was even the thought of never seeing them again is what contributed to his break-down on the James Caird.

Vincent spoke highly of Shackleton- both before and after the Endurance expedition. Rumours that he never mentioned it again are untrue.  Sadly he was never commended for his role, which is something that I believe should be put right, and I would dearly love to see him recognised for his efforts.   

Without him pushing himself as hard as he did, some members of Endurance descendants may not be here right now.  I certainly would not be standing here talking to you because without him, the future of our family would have been very different.

The people you read in history books were real people, with many dimensions and that perspective needs to be added into the equation.  Sometimes, their story needs to be told.

Family

After so many years of only really having extended family on my mum's side, its nice to finally have found some on my dad's, all thanks to my research, and trying to find out the family history.

John Vincent had a total of 10 children and step-children. Amazing! 5 children with his first wife, (one of whom sadly died as a newborn) and 5 with his second wife, and of course, his children in turn grew up and had their own children (and grand-children, and Great-grandchildren!), and so I have an army of cousins who I'd not known before!

So here are some of our family...



  First picture is Me, my dad and my great aunt, who is the youngest and only child of John Vincent still living. We are by the James Caird boat- the actual boat that sailed that 800 miles from Elephant Isle to South Georgia (currently in Dulwich College!)Aunt Dawn was in England for a holiday from her home in the US.

Next picture is me and my cousin Helen. we met purely by chance at Westminster Abbey, for the 100th anniversary service of the landing on South Georgia. We ended up sitting right next to each other and got talking, discovered we were related to the same crew member! Amazing co-incidence, I think someone was watching over us that day!





Finally, myself and my cousin Tracy, who I chat to a lot (and I bet she's reading this because she's the only person who knows about this blog!) We got in touch via our great Aunt and have a fair bit in common, mainly that we are both researching John Vincent. Here we are with John Vincent's cup and boots from the Endurance expedition. They are currently in the archives of Hull Maritime museum, and not normally on display but they were kind enough to bring them out for us to view.


How lucky I am to have such wonderful people around me, and that we've met in such symbolic places. Hopefully I will be able to discover more of us Vincent clan, as time goes on!

A Grave problem.

John William Vincent died in 1941.

He was 57 when he died, just a week before his 58th Birthday.

His grave in Grimsby and his death certificate both say that he was 61.


As a result, every biography written about him states he was born in 1879. 

He was born in 1884.

This is where my problems began.